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Senior Captain
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| OK, I wont call Labour the E Labour them. I quite like the word 'scum' to describe Gordon Brown though so we will have to differ on that. Still he wont be PM soon so you don't have to worry about it too much.
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Captain
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As Derek has already said, the UK ratified the Lisbon Treaty some months ago when PM Brown made his one-day-late trip to Lisbon to sign it. Like it or not, the democratic process in this country is not referenda dependant; we elect parliament to make these decisions for us and, the proposal having been passed by a democratic majority in parliament, the treaty was duly ratified.
If you don't like the party in power then vote against them; if you did vote against them at the last election then get your butt out there and help one of the other parties to defeat them next time round. That's democracy. That's what I'm doing. But stop whingeing
veteran cruiser.
next cruise
Arcadia 2010 J001 Auckland to Hong Kong
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Commodore
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If I remember correctly the referendum held in Edward Heath's time was to take us into the Common Market as it was then called. It was based on trade between the member states. Subsequent to that more and more powers have been devolved to Brussels which is something I certainly did not vote for and would not have voted for had I known.
Gary
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Commodore
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Not to worry whilst our politicians tell us correctly we are signed up now so not much can be done at present.
I really can't see the EU holing together as a united Europe for to many decades as we none of us like one another and once the president becomes all powerful and favours his our country the back biting will start and then the civil unrest, it will be like Ireland and Yugoslavia only bigger.
If there's EU army it will never fight any where as they will never be able to make up there mind who to send, and may be we won't get into another mess like Afghanistan for a while.
Ian
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Commodore
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| The cynic in me sees it as another gravy train for failed/faded politicians. Once you have had a bash in Westminster go over to Brussels where the expenses gravy train is even bigger. Neil and Glenys Kinnock seem to have done very well since Neil was rebuffed by the British electorate. Both have carved out very lucrative careers for themselves and now I see they are trying to find a nice little slot for Tony Blair. Little wonder they were so keen to ratify the Treaty 'on our behalf'. We were denied the opportunity of a referendum because they knew what the answer would be. The great British public have been badly let down. As for the judicial system we have so many layers it is ludicrous. Found guilty in a Crown Court? Appeal. Not satisfied? Take it to the House of Lords. Still not happy? Take it to Europe. All at the taxpayers expense. Don't get me started..............
Gary
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Commodore
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| Alasdair: Whatever differences we may have on matters politic, I entirely agree with your view on the democratic process and a citizen's duty and right to participate in it. All democratic parties need to work for as close to a 100% turnout of the electorate and to ensure that the BNP are ground into the dirt where they belong. ~~~ Oldbluefox: Edward Heath's Conservative administation 1970 - 1974 did indeed negotiate and gained our entry to the Common Market (expanding from 6 members to 9 [Denmark, Ireland & the UK, with Norway rejecting by referendum), but it was the Harold Wilson Labour administration in 1975 that decided to hold an unneccessay referendum and allowed the unprecendented dropping of cabinet collective responsibility. The YES campaign was supported by the likes of Callaghan and Healey from Labour, a majority of Tory MPs and all Liberal MPs. The NO campaign was supported by most of the TU movement, the left of the Labour party, the Communist Party, the anti-European tendancy within the Conservative party and the NF. Although I am against the use of referenda on any topic, it came as no surprise when the YES campaign got circa 70%+ of the vote, given the unpleasant and "unholy" alliance of the "NO" camp. I reluctantly worked on the "YES" campaign, so that I could at least do my bit to ensure that the great achievement of E.Heath was maintained and not scuppered by H.Wilson's devious ploy for populism.
Derek “The Monocled Mutineer” Kane
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\__/|>o<| Last cruise: Aurora R906 06/2009 Next cruise: Oriana X003 03/2010 For cruise history view "Member's interests" "The past is a foreign country - they do things differently there." - LP Hartley - The Go-Between.
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Senior Captain
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Hurrah for the EU and bring to the Euro!
- Dizzydog
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Staff Captain
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| Didn't Britain try and join the Common Market in the 1960's but Charles de Galle was having non of it? Don't know who the PM would have been then. MacMillan, Wilson?
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Commodore
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The first attempt to gain UK entry to The Six was during MacMillans tenure. France vetoed UK's joining in the early 60s.
Derek “The Monocled Mutineer” Kane
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\__/|>o<| Last cruise: Aurora R906 06/2009 Next cruise: Oriana X003 03/2010 For cruise history view "Member's interests" "The past is a foreign country - they do things differently there." - LP Hartley - The Go-Between.
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Commodore
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From Pedant's Corner - I don't think PM Brown signed the Treaty. It was signed by Mr Milliband.
David
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